I disagree with you.
It seems that a lot of people want the CCIE to be some type of magical,
mystical 4 letters ;)
I'm sorry, but it is just a certification... Granted, it is a darn good
one, but it isn't a guarantee of anything!
Just as there are many lawyers, doctors, teachers, accountants, etc etc etc
that have a hard time finding work that they consider 'reasonable', there
will be many Cisco engineers that have a hard time as well.
If you are have some good experience, a very good personality (which is very
important), the certification, and a good amount of patience, you will do
alright.
BUT, you can absolutely NOT convince me that 7,000 certified engineers in
the world is too many! Nor can you convince me that 10 times that is too
many!
Granted, in an economy that is hurting and IT budgets being put on hold,
getting contract work every 3 - 6 months could become tedious. I'm sorry
that you are having a hard time. However, if it gets too rough, why not try
looking for a good, 'permanent' position?
Regards,
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kaberna [mailto:jkaberna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 9:36 AM
To: jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Is the CCIE really worth it??? [3:3485]
Sure there are 7000 jobs *IF* a lot of CCIE's are willing to work for 70-80k
a year or $60-70 an hour. After all the effort, time, and money that is
hardly worth it. How many CCIE's on this list have received an email or
call for a job requiring a CCIE with a laughable salary or contract? I've
had too many to count. I still get calls, but not nearly as many and the
few that interested me had an overwhelming amount of competition. Since I
do contract work I'm looking for new gigs every 3-6 months. So I've been
following the decline closely for 2 years now. It's not as if I've been a
permanent employee somewhere for years without paying much attention. My
ears are to the ground.
I've been lucky enough to find enough work to do fairly well, but it's been
very difficult. It's not a matter of finding a job, it's finding something
that works for you. How many CCIE's are going to work as NT admins or
babysitting a NOC at 4am? I think this is temporary as a result of a bad
economy. I do think when things pick up if there are a reasonable number of
CCIE's there will not be a problem finding a good job. But, you are
suggesting there is enough work to support 10 times as many. That statement
is ludicrous and there isn't a person on this board that will agree with
that.
IMO, the supply of CCIE's will continue to outpace the demand with the new
one-day lab. We are already seeing the pass rate increase dramatically and
with more candidates it will continue to increase. Once the training
companies "braindump" the new short version of the lab it will be a lot
easier for people to see the exam ahead of time.
John Kaberna
CCIE #7146
NETCG Inc.
Cisco Premier Partner
www.netcginc.com
(415) 750-3800
__________________
CCIE Security Training
www.netcginc.com/training.htm
""Marshal Schoener"" wrote in message
news:200110012020.QAA13416@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I disagree with you on the difficulty of finding a job right now.
Besides,
> any difficulty in finding a job is the product of a very shaky economy
which
> should be temporary.
> There are more CCIEs than there are jobs?!? Are you telling me that there
> aren't 7000 jobs around for high level guys? I find that VERY difficult
to
> accept. Maybe these days a CCIE can't walk out of his office for lunch
and
> have a new job by 1pm, but the jobs are certainly out there. A little
> patience is all one really needs to find excellent jobs..
> Then again, I guess it depends on where you are. If you are living in
> Kentucky, I will agree with you that it might be difficult to find your
> technology dream job. However here in NY, it really isn't as difficult as
> some would make it seem.
> Regards,
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Kaberna [mailto:jkaberna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 4:09 PM
> To: jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Is the CCIE really worth it??? [3:3485]
>
>
> Marshal I completely disagree that the market can support 10 times as
many.
> That is insane. It's not that easy to find a job as a CCIE now. If there
> are 10 times as many it will be hopeless to find work. As soon as there
are
> 10 times as many jobs as there are CCIE's then I'll buy that. Right now
> there are MORE CCIE's and certified engineers than there are jobs. Just
ask
> some of the people on this list.
>
> John Kaberna
> CCIE #7146
> NETCG Inc.
> Cisco Premier Partner
> www.netcginc.com
> (415) 750-3800
>
> __________________
> CCIE Security Training
> www.netcginc.com/training.htm
>
> ""Marshal Schoener"" wrote in message
> news:200110011658.MAA16069@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > I agree with what you are saying, however there is a difference between
> > having to work hard for something, and having it so that there are only
> 6000
> > of them in the world...
> > The MCSE has lost respect within the IT industry, however if you want a
> > serious admin job, it is the most sought after certification. The CCIE
> will
> > always be a well respected certification. The fact that so few people
> have
> > it is in some ways harmful because human resources departments and
> managers
> > outside the tech industry haven't always heard of it. I have seen
people
> > get interviews for high level network engineering positions that were
> CCNAs
> > before CCIEs got the interview. This is because HR has heard of the
CCNA
> > and doesn't know what a CCIE is...
> > I'm not saying they should water down the test, nor do I believe they
are
> > doing so. However, I do believe that more is better to a certain
degree.
> > 6000 to 7000 CCIEs in the world is silly. There can very easily be 10
> times
> > that and the demand for certified, well trained engineers will still be
> > there ;-) Just my opinion.
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Logan, Harold [mailto:loganh@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 12:27 PM
> > To: jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: Is the CCIE really worth it??? [3:3485]
> >
> >
> > I disagree. I'm working towards the CCIE, and I want it to be hard. I
> > want to have to work for it. The last CCNP exam I took was the
> > Support/Troubleshooting exam, and I wanted my money back. The couple of
> > hours I put into studying for it were nothing but wasted time.
> >
> > In any line of work, supply and demand rule the market. The more IE's
> > there are out there, the less they'll be making. Not only that, but we
> > lowly CCNP's and CCDP's can probably expect even less. You point out
> > that there are way more doctors, lawyers, etc... well, there's more of a
> > demand for doctors and lawyers. It's a simple comparison: ask yourself
> > how many people in a given population get sick or decide to sue someone,
> > and compare that to the number of people who need a network designed.
> >
> > What's more, the easier any cert exam is to obtain, the worse its
> > reputation becomes; just ask Microsoft. It'll be years before the MCSE
> > is a respected certification again... why? Because it was too easy to
> > get. Everyone's got a story about an MCSE who talked big but couldn't
> > edit an LMHosts file, or couldn't set up a trust relationship, or
> > couldn't install a NIC. If the IE truly does get easier, how long will
> > it be before everyone has a similar story about a CCIE?I for one hope
> > Cisco keeps the lab challenging... I want the IE, but I want to work for
> > it.
> >
> > Hal Logan
> > Network Specialist / Adjunct Faculty
> > Computing and Engineering Technology
> > Manatee Community College
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Marshal Schoener [mailto:mschoener@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:30 PM
> > > To: jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: RE: Is the CCIE really worth it??? [3:3485]
> > >
> > >
> > > What is funny is that people are concerned with the
> > > possibility of 5 digit
> > > amounts of CCIEs at all.
> > > Considering there are way more doctors, lawyers, salesman,
> > > brokers, etc etc
> > > etc etc etc in just about every small city than there are
> > > CCIEs world wide,
> > > it doesn't seem something very logical to worry about.
> > > In fact, to a certain degree it is better off to have more
> > > than there are
> > > now for sales-marketing reasons...
> > > Another thing is that just because the format changes,
> > > doesn't mean the test
> > > is going to become easier. It may in fact become harder...
> > >
> > > For those of you that are really worried about this (which I
> > > honestly find
> > > hard to imagine) why don't you look into the specializations.
> > >
> > > Regards,
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