I too must disagree that senior people try to discourage entry level people
from advancing. I personally spend an hour every other week teaching our
noc, help desk and any one else interested networking concepts. I've always
encouraged them to stop by if they are interested in what I do. I am more
then willing to work with them and teach them the things they may need to do
my job. I would rather hire one of them then someone from outside the
company. If they show the ambition, they will get promoted. In fact the
way I look at it is the more they know, the less I have to do. The less they
call me in the middle of the night, the better off i am. I actually take
great satisfaction in seeing someone I've been working with get moved into a
more senior position. In fact I would like to see some of them eventually
get my job.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> Coker, Michael
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:39 AM
> To: 'Kevin Zsenak'; jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: first job........ROB discourages all
>
>
> Kevin,
>
> I disagree that it has anything to do with senior guys discouraging entry
> level people. On the contrary, I, along with most of the senior people I
> know, try to assist entry level people and help them learn the
> technologies.
> I can tell you it has nothing to with keeping their rates up
> either. Senior
> people bill out at higher rates (300+/hr) because of their
> knowledge of the
> technologies and how to implement that knowledge. The fact is you could
> hire 20 CCNA's that couldn't complete a job of one CCIE. Now before
> everyone goes off in a rant, it has nothing to do with CCNA's not being
> 'smart' enough. CCNA's should be able to do basic configurations, install
> network devices and provide basic troubleshooting. They are not
> expected to
> implement a VPN solution over ATM.
>
> I also don't believe it's that difficult to get into the field. You just
> have to have the right opportunity. If you're a MCSE, CNE, etc., you have
> shown that you can learn a technology and use that knowledge in the real
> world. (Assuming no paper certs) To get into the Cisco realm
> you must deal
> with Cisco products. At a larger corporation where your doing NT, Novell
> work, it is a little harder to get into a Cisco related position. It
> usually consists of demoting yourself, which no one likes to do, to a NOC
> type roll to get some basic hands on with Cisco gear. Another
> way to do it
> if you're in that position is to get into firewalls, VPN, and TACACS via
> leveraging your knowledge of NT.
>
> However, the easiest way is to get a position at a smaller
> company where you
> can be responsible for some low end Cisco installations and use that
> knowledge for future jobs. If you can get on board with a small to medium
> sized company where you can work under a senior Cisco person
> would be ideal.
>
> Also to defend Rob, a help desk position is notoriously labeled in this
> industry as for people who sit on their ass and don't go anywhere.
> Therefore, I'd take a position at a smaller company over a help desk
> position. The only way a help desk position can be useful is if you bust
> your ass and become help desk manager, and then quickly move on
> to the next
> position.
>
> Good luck, it's not that difficult, just take it step by step and continue
> learning.
>
> --Mike
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Zsenak [mailto:kevinzsenak@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 7:10 AM
> > To: jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: first job........ROB discourages all
> >
> >
> > I personally find it discouraging that there seems to
> > be such a barrier in place for entry level. I'm not
> > sure if a few senior guys are trying to keep their
> > rates up by discouraging people from getting into the
> > field or if it is truly difficult.
> >
> > I would like to know from the senior guys how they got
> > started. I would especially appreciate comments from
> > fellow MCSEs or CNEs that switched to Cisco.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "Pradeep Kumar MCSE i ,CCNA"
> > <pk_pradeep@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Dear Danny Mills,
> > >
> > > I have had such discouraging directions from this
> > > guy Rob.
> > >
> > > Well, to tell you the truth there are lot of
> > > companies who are taking CCNA labelled guys just
> > > for the sake of the label and put them on the
> > > field with other engineers. It is a matter of
> > > proffessional pride for the companies to have a
> > > CCNA or any CCxx on the staff of support engrs.
> > >
> > > So, you take a help desk , you are stuck to it.
> > > It is better to ask for low salary and work on
> > > the field rather than a desk job.
> > >
> > > You can quote between 35 - 45 K if u are a total
> > > fresher . After working for 6 months u ask for a
> > > raise , ie ask them for 45- 50 K else leave the
> > > company and DEMAND 50 - 60 K. You will get it .
> > > If u dont , hold me up.
> > >
> > > If u are anywhere near New York , I can help
> > > you.( free)
> > >
> > > So cheers.....
> > >
> > > Love and luck
> > > Pradeep
> > >
> > > --- Rob <rhmears3@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > I do not want to sound negitive, but you might
> > > > want to take that job at the
> > > > helpdesk.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> > > > Danny
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 7:00 PM
> > > > To: jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: first job
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What are the chances a new CCNA with no
> > > > experience, fresh out of the Cisco
> > > > Academy, can get even an entry level job
> > > > working with routers? If the
> > > > chances are too dismal, maybe I'll just take
> > > > that job on the help desk. (I
> > > > won't even get out of the Academy until the
> > > > Fall.)
> > > >
> > > > Danny Mills
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > > http://im.yahoo.com
> > >
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> >
> > __________________________________________________
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