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Re: FW: FW: Telecommunications vs internetworking [7:86571] posted 03/31/2004
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At 6:23 PM +0000 3/31/04, Messel, David S (David) wrote:
>You know I don't seem to be able to help myself but answer some of the items
>The Nortel ARN came directly from Bay Networks if anyone remembers that
>name. When it was Bay, documentation and help was easy to get, I know I
>worked with lots of these routers. They are great little and big routers
>that ran forever, in fact I have ran into some that have been in the field
>ten years. I personally liked them.

_Bay_, and earlier Wellfleet, did good work on routers. The 
documentation also was excellent -- sometimes when I'd find a Cisco 
point hard to follow, I'd go to the "Nortel" site and download Bay's 
manual.  Wellfleet consistently seemed to use more meaningful 
terminology -- I always like to contr

>The manager you are talking about was not a run of the mill terminal
>emulator but a proprietary interface that could track whole networks of
>routers (and associated configs) for you. I liked it, other than that yes
>the CLI leaves a lot to be liked unless you love working directly with MIB

Site Manager had pros and cons. Yes, it could be a management tool, 
but it suffered from scalability problems when it tried to manage too 
many devices.  At some point, it's worth separating your general 
network management and your configuration hosts.

It also could be criticized because it continued the approach of 
doing router control with CLI.  Especially when one gets in the 
telephone world, you never want to preclude the ability to recover 
from a problem if all you have is a dialup terminal.  Site Manager 
primarily uses SNMP to communciate with managed devices.

BCC was a very nice hybrid, which looked a fair bit like Cisco 
configuration language but had fewer weirdnesses.

>Cisco is no doubt the undisputed King of training and documentation; that I
>will not argue.
>Neal the next time you go to throw something away would you post it on the
>list it may be something that I might want to have. I will pay for the
>shipping ;)
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
>neal rauhauser
>Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:32 AM
>To: cisco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: FW: Telecommunications vs internetworking [7:86571]
>"Howard C. Berkowitz" wrote:
>>  Go to a data person, have them pick up their POTS phone, and watch as
>>  they are utterly shocked if they don't have dial tone.
>   Dialtone *is* a gift from god ...
>>  I spent several years in Nortel corporate R&D, still facing a
>>  widespread belief that MPLS would shut up all the data people that
>>  were complaining about ATM, although they really wanted to find a way
>>  to have MPLS without IP routing.  A little group of us came up with
>>  some radical router designs that could never get prototype funding.
>>  Eventually, of the six people that were designated as corporate
>>  research experts in IP, they laid off five. Ooops...forgot the
>>  Nortel-speak. We weren't laid off. We were optimized.
>   I've got a collection of books I've purchased for my pursuit of Cisco
>certifications. I stood them all on end a few months ago - the stack
>comes up to my chin and it weighs 96 pounds. I've got the materials to
>carry me through my CCIP but I suspect this pile will grow before I
>tackle the CCIE. Caslow and Hutnik & Satterlee are the two noteable
>exceptions to the rule - most of the rest flowed directly from Cisco
>Press to my bookshelf.
>   Go to your local Barnes and Noble or Borders and try to find the one
>lonely little book that Nortel brought out a few years ago. I just
>googled and I see they have a certification track that is superficially
>similar to what Cisco offered a few years ago.
>  I tried to get into Nortel stuff a while back. A couple of Nortel ARN
>fell into my hands and I thought I'd wire them into my Cisco lab. I
>googled. I went to the bookstore. I called some of the aftermarket
>dealers. I called the Nortel rep in the area. I eventually learned how
>to clear the passwords on the machines. The documentation on what one
>can do with them is apparently some sort of national secret of the
>People's State Of Nortel. I heard rumors that the command line is just
>to get the box bootstrapped and that the real work is done with some
>Windows based GUI for managing them.
>    The Nortel rep never called me back. Once I came to grips with the
>fact that I'd have to install some third rate shitpile excuse for an OS
>to manage an 'also ran' piece of routing equipment ... well ... they
>made very loud clangs when I threw them into the dumpster behind my
>   Lucent and Nortel were big iron telco shops that don't have a prayer
>long term - as the CCNAs from the class of 1999 become the managers
>behind purchasing decisions in 2009 the 'Cisco Press' is going to take
>over and squeeze the life out of them. Cisco's only real threat are
>things like nibbling at the lower end of the
>market and Juniper chewing into the high end.
>mailto:neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx fcc:K0BSD
>Cisco, Soekris, OpenBSD, or Amateur Radio? See my web page ...
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