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RE: Prolonged Batchlers Vs. CCNP ? [7:69483] posted 06/01/2003
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Has Bill Gates got an MBA?

Did John Postel ever go for a CCIE?

Just my $0.02

Best regards,

Dom Stocqueler
CTO - SysDom Technologies

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Jack Nalbandian
Sent: 01 June 2003 01:30
To: cisco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Prolonged Batchlers Vs. CCNP ? [7:69483]


I still seem to be unable to get across the central point.  It does not
matter what is more potent or more reliable than the other.  The point
is that neither should be either undervalued or overvalued by way of
unfair propaganda and preconceptions.

I have experienced that a college degree holder can also be as
incompetent and moronic as a non-holder, but I DO NOT go on a crusade to
ridicule college education.  Nor do I discourage someone from EARNING a
degree, and, in fact, I completely agree with the idea that a bachelors
degree should be EARNED when it is most opportune: early in life when
not bogged down by life's responsbilities.

I also, on the same exact and precise token, do not discourage people to
EARN a certification from the vendor relevant to their current position
to update their knowledge.  I happen to have gained much from Cisco's
program as well as MS's due to my particular area of work: Indepedent
constultant. I don't have to prove that I have "Harvard business
knowledge" when the reality that I deal with dictates that I understand
NETWORKING principles.

It is a simple idea, and it is crucial to the welfare of each company:
Judge each individual by their own merit as much as the situation allows
and as the situation requires.  I know companies who do this, and they
are run most efficiently.  Other who do not follow such principles
always suffer from disgruntled employees.

As to some of the points you outline (sorry I cannot get to all your
points or if I have missed any):

1. Cisco's (and Microsoft's for that matter) example of who's on the
Board of Directors or in management in general is irrelevant to the
discussion except for the fact that they are managers, specifically
managers.  Those on the board or in management have proven themselves to
be managers, while the CCIE's are proven technicians, network engineers.
There is no "Vendor cert for management."  We are, yet again, devaluing
something, an orange per se, by putting it in an apple contest.
Irrelevant!

2. I again, restate, restate and restate again that I DO NOT discourage,
nor do I wish to unfairly discredit, discount, ridicule, nor dismiss the
value of a REAL college education.  I am a college graduate as well,
albeit in the music field, but I see the need for vendor certs (the
programs themselves, not as much the "title").  Specialization in
technical areas has to be achieved and measured in some formal manner,
specially in a complex field like networking.  This is precisely the
reason why I find it strange that a certification program is under
attach with such propaganda.  If you EARN a cert, truly, you will learn
a lot.  There is essentially little difference in result per effort
invested.

3. I do not have "lofty ideals" from which I fly into bouts of fantasy.
I tell reality the way I have seen it, and I can assure you that vendor
certs are valued by a good number of people for what they are.  College
degrees have been overrated by a great many companies who hire people
for technical positions, and these same companies, again, are the ones
that suffer the most from lack of professionalism in their ranks.  For
positions of upper management (or even "middle" management), I have no
argument either way, as it is totally out of bounds of this discussion.




Message Posted at:
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