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RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] posted 04/04/2002
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I apologize if my email insinuated that you aren't talented or qualified;
that wasn't my intent. I applaud your motives for pursuing the IE; they
aren't far from my own. I think you should be prepared though, as should I,
to find out after we get our numbers that the CCIE is going to be listed for
many jobs as a minimum requirement. The job market is governed by supply and
demand; it always has been, it always will be. The demand for IE's has
dropped, while the supply is steadily increasing.
Good luck with your job hunt, and likewise I hope your lab goes well. Have
you set a date yet?
-----Original Message----- 
From: x [mailto:tomm02@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Thu 4/4/2002 12:29 PM 
To: cisco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]

	I guess I wasn't completely clear in my original post.
	 I am not a recent CCNA graduate with no experience in
	the field or a "street vendor"(this one is pretty
	funny to me living in New York).  I am looking for
	Cisco career advice.  Judging from the responses, I am
	not the only person who wants to make the leap from a
	job that is part time Cisco to full time Cisco.
	I have been in the IT field for 6 years and moved from
	desktop, to Novell, to NT, to Unix.  I passed the CNE
	and got a junior Novell position.  I passed the MCSE
	and then got a junior position.  I worked on learning
	OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris, and Redhat Linux and got a
	NT/Unix job that included Cisco switches, a vpn
	concentrator, a PIX and a PIX to PIX vpn.  I also
	passed the CCDA, CCNA, CCNP, and the CCIE written.  I
	am planning on taking the CCDP and CSS-1 before
	finishing my CCIE.  I have my own home lab complete
	with 6 routers and a Catalyst 5000.  I would like to
	get more hands on Cisco experience in the real world
	before I try the CCIE Lab.  I am in a position now
	where I am certified to a degree, have some
	experience, and a home lab.  Usually at this point I
	can land a junior position and get real experience to
	move into a senior position. It just seems like a huge
	gap in the job market.
	All the job ads from Hotjobs, monster, and headhunter
	are looking for Cisco people are asking for CCIE's or
	people with 5+ years experience.  These people had to
	get that experience somewhere and there must be Cisco
	positions that don't require a CCIE.  I am going to go
	out on a limb assuming there are company's with 10 to
	20 routers or resellers that need CCNPs or companies
	that can't afford to hire a CCIE, but need Cisco help.
	 Where are these jobs posted?  Do I need to know a
	secret handshake? hehe  If you are a CCIE or have 5+
	years Cisco experience how did you get it(Priscilla
	Openhiemer  might have spelled that wrong or any other
	CCIEs or highly experienced people on the list)?  I
	would like to hear your story of how you "made it."
	Maybe it can give me an idea of what I need to do.
	This brings me to why I want to be a CCIE.  I first
	heard the CCIE was the most difficult certification to
	achieve when I was just starting in networking.  I was
	told the CCIE Lab is almost impossible and there were
	only about 5,000 CCIEs compared to 80,000 MCSEs or
	CNEs.  I was hooked.  Its not about the money, because
	anyone can make plenty of money just doing Microsoft,
	Novell and/or Unix with alot less effort.  It isn't
	because Cisco is "hot."  Its because this is the
	biggest challenge in networking and when I do
	something I want to be the best.
	-----Original Message-----
	From: Logan, Harold [mailto:loganh@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
	Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:24 PM
	To: cisco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
	Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs?
	I don't mean to offend anyone, but the job market
	doesn't owe anyone a job,
	and I include myself with that statement. Right now a
	CCNA or NP with little
	or no experience is going to have as much luck selling
	that skillset as a
	street vendor selling "September 11th - We will not
	forget" stickers. There
	was a heavy demand for them 6 months ago, but there's
	hardly any demand for
	them now. If you don't think that analogy applies to
	IT, then there are some
	COBOL programmers I'd like to introduce you to.
	Face it, there is little if any demand forpeople with
	just a CCNA, or even
	an NP without much work experience. I feel bad for
	you, I really do. So
	adapt; look to see what there is a demand for, and
	more importantly what
	there will be a demand for, and work towards fitting
	that mold.
	Sorry if I sound bitter, but here's my perspective -
	every year my school
	kicks out at least a dozen CCNA's, and that's
	considered low.
	----Original Message-----
	From: Lomker, Michael [mailto:mlomker@xxxxxxx]
	Sent: Wed 4/3/2002 2:49 PM
	To: cisco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
	Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs?
	        > How do I get a job that works with Cisco products,
	        > without alot of experience or a CCIE?
	        No kidding and good luck.  Even when the economy was
	good I couldn't find a
	        job.  If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better,
	but my business degree
	        didn't get me anywhere.
	        My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco.  You
	might have to find a job
	        like mine at a company that will give you some
	exposure to the Cisco
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