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RE: Starting my journey again after three years posted 11/17/2008
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Agreed Pavel!  I'd like to clarify that I personally felt it was a bit weak
in select sections, such as BGP (light even for a "recap" resource, IMHO),
but *certainly not* the book as a whole.  It's also important to note that
the authors are not shy about referencing other material as critical for
exam prep.  For example, they reference either Doyle Vol I or Vol II at the
conclusion of seemingly every chapter.  


Book projects are no doubt a major life's undertaking (I know more than a
few authors and can certainly sympathize) and at the end of the day
something like a Cert Guide has to be targeted to the exam content, without
going too far in one direction or the other.  Then there's overall page
count limitation, which I personally face with just about every proposal
effort I ever get involved with, so again, I can sympathize.  The omission
of the complete best path selection process likely just reflects a shift in
present day exam content (my recollection is that it was featured
prominently in the second edition of the book), which actually isn't all bad
(as I said, I'm not really so much into exams that simply demand rote
memorization and regurgitation).


BUT, since I was more or less recommending that the OP (and anyone else in a
similar circumstance) purchase/update this book as part of preparing to
re-sit the written, I felt the disclaimer to be in order.  If it's my
opinion that the book should be on one's shelf but also that it would have
benefited from a more in-depth discussion of a few key areas (so far - I
haven't finished it yet), then I need to express that personal opinion fully
and not partially.  




(Also, just as an interesting side note is Odom's "Acknowledgements" piece -
he apparently was not quite so involved with this third edition as  the
previous, so some of the change in content and style can likely be
attributed to some or perhaps many of the sections having been
submitted/modified by coauthors this go-around)



From: Pavel Bykov [mailto:slidersv@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:54 PM
To: Scott M Vermillion
Cc: Anthony Sequeira; Wiz Khan; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Starting my journey again after three years


Scott, there is a shorter version or PA consideration sequence on page 369
of the said book.
Also Wendell mentions  a lot of important concepts of initial BGP checks,
like reachability of the next hop. Or Rules for advertising on page 376. Or
RR Cluster_List logic on page 390.

I wouldn't go as far to call the book "weak" just because of the omission
you mentioned. It's just maybe that Wendell kind of counts that you know
Path Attribute logic already.
Because certainly no one should count to learn BGP in a summarized book, or
in the course of CCIE studies for that matter. BGP is certainly a topic on
it's own, and should be approached as such, with handful amount of practice.

Also, On the "Product Support" page (the new DOC_CD) the BGP Path Attribute
sequence can be found in cca. 20 seconds.

I'm not saying that it's right not to include complete version, because i'd
certainly prefer it to be there. The book is packed full of information and
was my only resource to pass CCIE Written and get a glimps of things to come
in the LAB. As with most CCIE materials, it's mostly a recap of technology,
i.e. helping you remember all the stuff you should already know, pointing
out weak areas along the way or explaining the stuff you might have had
questions about.

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Scott M Vermillion
<scott_ccie_list@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Aint that a doozy?!

Actually, I'm all in favor of exam writers taking the time to probe
comprehension and knowledge vs. an ability to memorize stuff.  You can come
up with a mnemonic for anything (Naughty Wombats, LOL) and pass an exam full
of questions such as "name the RFC that defines xyz" and so forth.  Having
said that, to state that the BGP best path selection is outside the scope of
the written Cert Guide strikes me as taking things a tad far.  This book
makes extensive use of the "Key Topic" flag.  I interpret those to be
identifying knowledge which is critical to passing the exam.  They simply
could have listed the selection process and then not flagged it as a key
point (for the written, of course, if in fact it no longer is).

Oh well, the information is out there and it's probably best to be finding
it in the documentation (or your brain) vs. any book by the time you move on
to lab prep.  Just struck me as really odd when I read it...

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Sequeira [mailto:asequeira@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:22 AM
To: Scott M Vermillion
Cc: 'Wiz Khan'; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Starting my journey again after three years

Oh my!

Anthony J. Sequeira, CCIE #15626, CCSI #23251
Senior CCIE Instructor


Internetwork Expert, Inc.
Toll Free: 877-224-8987
Outside US: 775-826-4344

On Nov 17, 2008, at 1:12 PM, Scott M Vermillion wrote:

> Wiz,
> The blueprint for the written changed quite a bit back in the summer
> of '07;
> definitely upgrade your Cisco Press "Certification Guide," which has
> since
> been updated to reflect the new v3.x content.
> But I feel this book is week in some key areas (was shocked the
> other day to
> see that the BGP best path selection process was considered by the
> authors
> to be "lengthy" and "outside the scope of this book" - gasp!).
> Best,
> Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Wiz
> Khan
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:19 AM
> To: ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Starting my journey again after three years
> Greetings,
> I took my first shot at CCIE RS lab exam almost three years ago and
> did not
> pass it. Since then I am working on L4-L7 stuff and kind of away from
> traditional routing and switching world. Now I have decided to go
> back and
> study again. My written is obviously expired. So that will be my
> first step
> now. I am working in Networking for past 10 years. over the course
> of this
> time, I have purchased and studied many cisco press books. Now I
> need to go
> back to these books and start preparing for my written exam. Couple
> of days
> ago, when I took my cisco press books from my shelf (all were dusty)
> and
> started reading, I realize that I still know lots of stuff from
> them, and it
> felt like I will be wasting lots of time going thru these books, I
> really
> need some condensed form so I can quickly brush up my skills. Is any
> one
> aware of any such books?
> At my first lab attempt [almost three years ago] I bought IPexpert
> work book
> (version 7 I believe) and its proctor guide. The material was great,
> unfortunately I did not even complete first 5 labs before sitting in
> the
> lab. I still have those books, I am wondering if those are still
> relavent or
> should I buy new work books?
> My current employer may be willing to pay for ccie bootcamp. I am
> wondering
> if there are any good ones (for written and lab) in New York city?
> many thanks
> Wiz
> Blogs and organic groups at
> _______________________________________________________________________
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Pavel Bykov
Stop the braindumps!