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RE: How to Become a CCIE v2 posted 05/06/2008
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I always have to laugh at your analogies.  :)

I suppose the value in the endorsement you mentioned would really depend on
how the night with your girlfriend was.  But I think that involves
establishing a value there which may not be a very safe thing to do! (grin)

CISSP isn't designed to measure technical skills.  It's designed to measure
business skills regarding security, and measure awareness of a larger
variety of security concerns in order to manage the broad-sweeping stuff,
not the minute details of implementing an ACL.

I agree there are plenty of worthless ones out there, but the same can be
said for any certification.

Scott 

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Joseph Brunner
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:45 AM
To: 'Dale Shaw'; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: How to Become a CCIE v2

>Perhaps Cisco could consider a system like CISSP

Um, no thanks...
I work with several CISSP's. They have almost ZERO practical security
knowledge...

Just last Friday I had to teach one of these endorsed "professionals" 
The pix, subnetting, writing ACL's, etc, why we do nonat's, etc.

What good is a certification if does not give you any training/knowledge
that allows you to do anything in the real world?

The CISSP has become so devalued because it's a life raft for non-technical
people who want to work in IT.

Anyone who has a good working relationship with their boss can be
endorsed... My old boss would have endorsed me robbing a liquor store if I
promised him an ecstasy tab and a night with my girlfriend... does this make
his endorsement valuable?

-Joe
(Back on dagobah/rtp in July for a REAL security test ;)



-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dale
Shaw
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:27 AM
To: ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2

Irrespective of how hard or not the CCIE lab is, I agree with one key point
that the original poster made:

Just like every other vendor certification, there is no way for a
prospective employer, or anyone for that matter, to differentiate between
someone who has years and years of practical experience and blitzed the lab
first go, and someone with relatively limited experience but who
brute-forced their way through.

The end result is "CCIE", not "CCIE (passed first go)" or "CCIE (passed on
the 5th attempt)". In my opinion, despite the practical nature of the lab,
it is still possible to be a "paper CCIE".

To use the fruit comparison analogy in a different way: comparing CCIEs can
indeed be like comparing apples and oranges! -- some are good, some are bad.

Perhaps Cisco could consider a system like CISSP, whereby you have to be
endorsed by someone who is already certified, and/or you have to meet other
pre-requisites, like number of years of relevant work experience.

cheers,
Dale


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