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RE: Multiple IEs posted 01/31/2008
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My take on the poster's original question is a getting a CCIE in any subject
is not intended to make you an "expert". It is simply to certify that you
are an expert at learning that subject.

There are many many fields relating to mathematics, from both pure math, and
applied math. Getting a phd in one area, does not make you an "expert" at
the other areas.

In our field, we have 5 specializations of "Cisco certified experts". We can
then use the foundation gained from achieving one to drill down to specific
areas where we can specialize. As a Route Switch CCIE I am expected to know
how to configure, troubleshoot EIGRP, etc. I am not expected to know how to
use applied mathematics or game theory to improve the dual algorithm's
ability to converge in various instances, BUT I COULD SOMEDAY???!?!?

So once we get one IE done, we are eager to expand our foundation using the
same study techniques, workbooks, and such. We don't expect to know more
than the real "experts" who created these technologies, but we know we can
compete in them. 

That's all I want.

-Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gary
Duncanson
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:30 PM
To: Santi
Cc: ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Multiple IEs

Certainly agree with that.

A have found lot of folks in security are really lacking in networking 
fundamentals surprisingly. Unlike yourself I think a lot of people just 
rapidly moved into it because it was seen as being the cool thing to do.  A 
recall asking a security specialist some years back if vlans were employed 
to provide security on a particular network. He replied 'oh no our security 
works at layer 2'

Go figure.

There are a myriad of things to learn concerning network security that go 
way beyond the stock stuff many security consultants espouse to know 
something about. DAI is just one of them.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Santi" <ccie@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Paul Dardinski'" <pauld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 2:51 AM
Subject: RE: Multiple IEs


>I would agree with that.  Additionally, going for another might help to
> round out your CCIE specialty.  For instance, busting my butt for the CCIE
> R&S would help me to better understand the underlying network, traffic and
> flows when I wish to really tear up security.  I have been in the security
> field for 8 years now and still learning a lot.  However, when I worked 
> with
> a couple of engineers that had their CCIE R&S, this really forced me to 
> step
> up and learn more about the network. In fact, they created IE level 
> problems
> for me to solve and that had to be integrated into a security solution. 
> This
> forced to learn about the various protocols and technologies much more
> deeply.
>
> So, since I really wanted to be more than just someone with a single CCIE 
> in
> security, I also wanted to assure myself that I had more than just a CCNP
> level of expertise in networks.  After working with CCIE R&S engineers, I
> quickly learned that there was much more to the network which is paramount
> to a real solid security design. So, I am studying for the IE R&S before
> obtaining the IE Security.
>
> I hope this is a good plan.
>
> Santi
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Paul
> Dardinski
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:51 PM
> To: EdmondsSG@xxxxxxx; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Multiple IEs
>
> I think it is because in the first one we all get kind of "weird" and
> pretty much become study addicts:)
>
> PD (#16842)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> EdmondsSG@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:20 AM
> To: ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Multiple IEs
>
> Why do so many people get their first IE, then immediately go for a
> second
> (SP/VOICE/SECURITY)?
>
> Is almost like they get the IE in say R/S and think .. thats it ..I know
> it
> all now - I can move on to something else.
>
> But it takes years to become a true 'EXPERT' in any field - so dont  let
> the
> certifications grandiose title fool ya!
>
> Build on what you have learnt through exam study - become a true expert
> -
> and you will be a man my son ..
>
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