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RE: Contract Position in Los Angeles area posted 08/19/2007
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Sorry if you found this offensive Brant.  The point wasn't to talk about
our own salaries (or, more accurately, our consulting rates).  The point
was to try to come to some understanding of how the CCIE cert could have
been so devalued that those who hold a number could be consulting in a
city like LA for what at first appeared to be a depressingly low rate. 
It was all a misunderstanding; Joe and I were looking at this from a
corporate standpoint, but Narbik was talking about it from another.  And
the discussion was taken offline, BTW. 

And also BTW, go ahead and google me...you'll find that I'm a semi-famous
soccer player, LOL (alternatively, I appear to some kind of spiritual
guru)!  And even if you filter all of those news articles out, reading
every one of my posts would be a challenge indeed!  I've been on message
boards since before there was a WWW (although in those days usernames
were genearally limited to just eight characters, so you'd have to be
creative to find me that far back)!! 

  -------- Original Message --------
  Subject: Re: Contract Position in Los Angeles area
  From: "Brant I. Stevens" <branto@xxxxxxxxxx>
  Date: Sat, August 18, 2007 1:59 pm
  To: Scott Vermillion <scott_ccie_list@xxxxxxxxx>,  Narbik Kocharians
  <narbikk@xxxxxxxxx>
  Cc: Craig Tompkins <sidalo@xxxxxxxxx>,  Joseph Brunner
  <joe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,  Andrew Shin <mr.dude@xxxxxxxxx>,
  <ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,  "Larry Letterman (lletterm)"
  <lletterm@xxxxxxxxx>,  Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@xxxxxxxxx>

  Am I the only one who thinks it is in rather poor taste to be talking
  about
  one's income in such an open forum? Speaking of one's salary with
  others
  within an organization, especially financials, can lead to dismissal
  should
  management and/or HR be aware. With all the stories of people losing
  jobs
  because of their Myspace activity, it just doesn't strike me as a
  very wise
  thing to do.

  Never mind that Google will archive these messages in perpetuity...
  Any
  potential FUTURE employer can, and usually will, Google candidates.

  -Brant

  On 8/18/07 1:24 AM, "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@xxxxxxxxx>
  wrote:

  > Ah, now it all makes sense! I think both Joe and I were looking at
  that
  > "consultancy" bit and thinking ????? When I see that, I'm thinking
  raw
  > rate paid for services rendered, and in that case, you have to look
  at
  > all of the business overhead expenses that Joe initially mentioned.
  No
  > way to think of doing that in a major metro area (esp expensive LA)
  for
  > $45US/hr!
  >
  > -------- Original Message --------
  > Subject: Re: Contract Position in Los Angeles area
  > From: "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk@xxxxxxxxx>
  > Date: Fri, August 17, 2007 7:14 pm
  > To: "Darby Weaver" <darbyweaver@xxxxxxxxx>
  > Cc: "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@xxxxxxxxx>, "Craig
  Tompkins"
  > <sidalo@xxxxxxxxx>, "Joseph Brunner" <joe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
  > "Andrew Shin" <mr.dude@xxxxxxxxx>, ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Larry
  > Letterman (lletterm)" <lletterm@xxxxxxxxx>
  >
  > Joseph,
  >
  > Thanks for your kind worlds, but the range that i mentioned was not
  > for me, this range is typical when you go through an agency, if you
  > want to do it on your own, then the hourly rate changes
  drastically.
  >
  > I have been in this industry for the past 30 years and i have not
  > worked for a firm for the last 12 + years, not that its bad, but i
  > just have not.
  >
  > If you have your own consulting firm and you are not going through
  an
  > agency, you could charge a lot more depending on the contract.
  >
  > But if some one just got their CCIE and they are consulting for an
  > agency, and they have about 4 - 5 years of exper. they would
  probably
  > make around 100K.
  >
  > Remember that the houses in LA are expensive, but not everyone
  lives
  > in an expensive house, you guys are blessed to pay 400 b" 500K for
  a
  > house and get a 4 b" 5 bedrooms, here in LA, with that money
  > (Depending where you live) it should be a good down payment for a 3
  > bed + 2 bath house or may be for a 2 bedroom condo.
  >
  > But remember that its great to leave LA, but it will very hard to
  > come back.
  >
  > On 8/17/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  >
  > Wow!!!
  >
  > Joseph, those are pretty strong words. Did it sound
  > like the person was addressing you personally?
  >
  > I can think of plenty CCNP's who might like to take a
  > position like that - it won't get one rich but man...
  >
  > That was a pretty decent sized flame.
  >
  > --- Narbik Kocharians < narbikk@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  >
  >> What do CCIEs with few years of exper. make?
  >>
  >> On 8/17/07, Scott Vermillion
  >> <scott_ccie_list@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  >>>
  >>> No wonder so many California big city types have
  >> been showing up here in
  >>> CO!! With a CCNP/CCDP it's possible to earn a W2
  >> hourly wage within the
  >>> range you're talking about below (definitely
  >> towards the lower end of that
  >>> range, but within that range nonetheless)...
  >>>
  >>> -------- Original Message --------
  >>> Subject: Re: Contract Position in Los Angeles area
  >>> From: "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk@xxxxxxxxx>
  >>> Date: Fri, August 17, 2007 3:51 pm
  >>> To: "Larry Letterman (lletterm)"
  >> <lletterm@xxxxxxxxx>
  >>> Cc: "Craig Tompkins" <sidalo@xxxxxxxxx>, "Joseph
  >> Brunner"
  >>> < joe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Andrew Shin"
  >> <mr.dude@xxxxxxxxx>,
  >>> ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  >>>
  >>> I live in LA and the hourly rate for a CCIE for a
  >> long term contract is
  >>> anywhere from 45 - 100 per hour. 100 per hour
  >> requires lots of experiance.
  >>>
  >>> On 8/17/07, Larry Letterman (lletterm)
  >>
  > <lletterm**@cisco.com<
  >
  >
  http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&type=replyall&folder=INB
  > OX&uid=22#Compose>>
  >>> wrote:
  >>>>
  >>>> Go check house prices in LA then..
  >>>>
  >>>> -----Original Message-----
  >>>> From:
  >>
  > nobody**@groupstudy.com<
  >
  >
  http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&type=replyall&folder=INB
  > OX&uid=22#Compose>[mailto:
  >>>
  >> ;
  > nobody**@groupstudy.com<
  >
  >
  http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&type=replyall&folder=INB
  > OX&uid=22#Compose>]
  >>> On Behalf Of
  >>>> Narbik Kocharians
  >>>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 3:20 PM
  >>>> To: Craig Tompkins
  >>>> Cc: Joseph Brunner; Andrew Shin;
  >>
  > ccielab**@groupstudy.com<
  >
  >
  http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&type=replyall&folder=INB
  > OX&uid=22#Compose>
  >>>> Subject: Re: Contract Position in Los Angeles
  >> area
  >>>>
  >>>> This is NOT a bad pay for a NP or even a CCIE
  >> that just starting with
  >>>> very little exp.
  >>>>
  >>>> On 8/17/07, Craig Tompkins
  >>
  > <sidalo**@gmail.com<
  >
  >
  http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&type=replyall&folder=INB
  > OX&uid=22#Compose>>
  >>> wrote:
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Joe,
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Is this hostility leftover from your 8th
  >> attempt?
  >>>>>
  >>>>> The base pay yes is 50 x 2080 = 104,000 yearly
  >> assuming no overtime.
  >>>>> Yes you are right that after providing their
  >> own insurance, that the
  >>>>> position paying that amount on a contracting
  >> basis in the LA area is a
  >>>>
  >>>>> little low. You could have pointed this out,
  >> hile being a little more
  >>>>
  >>>>> respectful and professional.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> --
  >>>>> Craig Tompkins
  >>>>> CCIE #16921
  >>>>>
  >>>>> On 8/17/07, Joseph Brunner
  >>
  >
  > <joe**@affirmedsystems.com<http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart
  > =0&type=replyall&folder=INBOX&uid=22#Compose
  >>>
  >>> wrote:
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> Sorry, but $50 an hour is hardly $100k per
  >> year... and from that you
  >>>>> want
  >>>>>> me
  >>>>>> to buy
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> -business liability insurance
  >>>>>> -business errors & omissions insurance
  >> (usually required to get the
  >>>>> first)
  >>>>>> -the employers 7.2% share of social security
  >> (on the first $97,000)
  >>>>>> -my own health insurance -contribute to my
  >> own 401k.
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> I don't say this lightly, but go $#ck
  >> yourself. Do you think anyone
  >>>>>> any good is going to do that job for about
  >> $60k a year?
  >>>>>> < BR>> > > > > -Joe
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
  >>>>>> From:
  >>
  >
  > nobody**@groupstudy.com<http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&;
  > type=replyall&folder=INBOX&uid=22#Compose
  >> [mailto:
  >>>
  >>
  > nobody**@groupstudy.com<
  >
  >
  http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&type=replyall&folder=INB
  > OX&uid=22#Compose>]
  >>> On Behalf
  >>>>
  >>>>>> Of Andrew Shin
  >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 2:36 PM
  >>>>>> To:
  >>
  > ccielab**@groupstudy.com<
  >
  >
  http://email.secureserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&type=replyall&folder=INB
  > OX&uid=22#Compose>
  >>>>>> Subject: Contract Position in Los Angeles
  >> area
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> Hi all, I'm forwarding this for a friend.
  >> I'll also post this on
  >>>>>> the
  >>>>> job
  >>>>>> board, but I'm not sure how many people
  >> ch eck that.
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> Thanks!
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> 1+ year local contract (hourly consultancy
  >> 50/hr range) in the Los
  >>>>> Angeles
  >>>>>> area (South Bay)
  >>>>>> It's with a well established and well known
  >> global company and has
  >>>>>> the likelihood of extending for a long time.
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> Network Engineer
  >>>>>> Mid to Senior level NW Engineer who has
  >> large corporate NW
  >>>>>> engineering experience.
  >>>>>> WAN/LAN, VOIP.
  >>>>>> 7-10 years of NW Engineering experience
  >> Experience working within an
  >>>>
  >>>>>> environment that is comprised of Unix,
  >> Windows, and Mainframe (need
  >>>>>> to have worked with all three environments)
  >> Experience providing
  >>>>>> proof of concept and presenting design and
  >> recommendations to team
  >>>>>> members and management.
  >>>>>> Provide 3rd level support.
  >>>>>> Experience with Cisco 2600-7200 routers and
  >> Cisco 350 switches. E
  >>>>>> Experience with Firewall, PIX, VPN 3000
  >> Concentrator, ATM, and video
  >>>>
  >>>>>> conferencing.
  >>>>>> Professional with good communication
  >> abilities
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>> Please contact
  >>
  > matthew.chontos**@ispace.com<http://email.secur
  >
  >
  eserver.net/pcompose.php?aEmlPart=0&type=replyall&folder=INBOX&uid=22#Compose
  >>
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>>
  >>
  >
  ____________________________________________________________________
  >>>>>> ___ Subscription information may be found
  >> at:
  >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>>
  >>
  >
  ____________________________________________________________________
  >>>>>> ___ Subscription information may be found
  >> at:
  >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>
  >
  ______________________________________________________________________
  >>>>> _ Subscription information may be found at:
  >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
  >>>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> --
  >>>> Narbik Kocharians
  >>>> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
  >>>> CCSI# 30832
  >>>> www.Net-WorkBooks.com
  >> <http://www.net-workbooks.com/>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>
  >
  _______________________________________________________________________
  >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
  >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
  >>>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> --
  >>> Narbik Kocharians
  >>> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
  >>> CCSI# 30832
  >>> www.Net-WorkBooks.com
  >> <http://www.net-workbooks.com/>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >
  _______________________________________________________________________
  >>> Subscription information may be found at:
  >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >>
  >> --
  >> Narbik Kocharians
  >> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
  >> CCSI# 30832
  >> www.Net-WorkBooks.com
  >>
  >>
  >
  _______________________________________________________________________
  >> Subscription information may be found at:
  >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
  >>
  >
  > --
  > Narbik Kocharians
  > CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
  > CCSI# 30832
  > www.Net-WorkBooks.com
  >
  >
  _______________________________________________________________________
  > Subscription information may be found at:
  > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

  _______________________________________________________________________
  Subscription information may be found at:
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