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Re: OT: CCIE Salary - For people taking H1-B's - Listen carefully. posted 03/19/2007
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Shop that hires you and pays less than the competition is of course abusing
you. It is not always smaller consulting companies or startup type ventures
... even larger companies have been known to take advantage of H1Bs.

But here is the real scoop that most foreigners do not know and are afraid
of .  The law requires that any company who brings in skilled talent from
outside of the US must pay competitive salaries and also prove that the
reason they are bringing skilled talent is because of lack of similar skills
in the country.

If you are a foreign worker in US who is working in one of those sweat
workshops you need to understand that your employer faces major fines and
jail time if they are caught.  So report him since he doesn't care about you
also and is abusing you.  Once you are in states on h1 b -  changing jobs is
a night mare because of the lack of enough h1 b's available and also the
reluctance on part of the hiring companies nowadays for h1 b's.  Even the
big ones like HP,SUN  for example.

Once you start working in a sweatshop you will lose precious years of your
life toiling for  someone who will not pay you decent salary to live and
abuse the hell out of you and most engineers live under the fear that if the
report their employer then they will lose their jobs and will have to go
back and start their life all over again - because their status will change

Even if this kind of employer sponsors your permanent residency (green
card), it is no consolation. To obtain permanent residency:

-it requires you to be in same job (no promotions even if you are smarter,
capable or better qualified than your peers).

- work duties can not change formally (employer will probably take advantage
of an employee in a compromising situation .. by giving you a major grunt of
menial jobs or extra work load compared to your colleagues)

- same salary (don't expect any increases if you have furthered your
qualifications with new skills (ie MBA)  while your application is still in
process) .

Imagine being stuck like this this for minimum 5 to 7 years because the
American Immigration is a slow process. INS/DOL have not been able to clear
the backlog of applications since last so many years due to lack of
resources. This is also a scam, govt. departments trying to collect money
from businesses for pending applications. Longer INS/DOL take to process,
more money they make.

So it's a catch and the employers know that for a ccie  a sweatshop will
sign a contract for $80-140 /hr easy and only pay the engineer about 20/hr.
whle the engineer figures out where to live and how to survive in that
amount the employer is vacationing in hawaaiii.

Also please be aware that the easiest and the quickest way to bring your
spouse to the US is when you have H1 B.  There is no waiting period for H1B
but there are long waiting periods of waiting 4-7 years for green card
holders.  Even for US citizens there is 6months to 1 year wait period
because of the pile up of applications.

Bottom line

If you are seeking to work in US on h1b
* Negotiate your salary. Do not trust an employer if they say after 6 months
of being in job, salary will be raised. It does not happen. Believe in your
talent/skill and know what it is worth.

* If you have ccie you will find a h1b sponsor it might take a month or two
more but you will so there is no need to worry just look for the best

* If you don't find any jobs in the beginning look up the major consulting
houses and write to them or call them up and talk to hiring managers / hr
managers and present yourself to them.  Ask for email and fax numbers and
send in your resume anyway. Do the same with larger corporations. This way
your resume will be in their database.

* Make sure you have a skills section, highlighting all the key buzz words
for ccie, networking.  Since they search their databases regularly for those

* CCIE is globally recognized and USA isn't the only country where a CCIEs
can earn well and lead a comfortable lifestyle.  Places such as Europe ,
Australia, New Zealand are all equally good. Do consider job opportunities
outside USA also.

If you did not negotiate and you are already in the US, do this :
* Look for work silently

* When you find it the new company will transfer your h1b. Once that is done
, go report to the labor dept: and INS  the sweat shop you were working at
so that this can be stopped.

* Do not be afraid. You owe this much to others for not falling into the
same trap as you did. And hopefully you already know the pains of working in
a sweat shop by now.

   ................... Just a perspective from someone who has been through
it ~

On 3/14/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> If you are non-U.S. citizen and you get your CCIE and
> want to work in the U.S...
> Listen up and listen well.
> About the average U.S. salary for a CCIE is around
> $115,000.00 U.S.
> What does this mean to you?
> It means that some U.S. companies may try to lure you
> here for say less than $50,000.00 U.S. and take a bit
> of advantage of the fact you want to work in the U.S.
> My advice: Turn them down... Cold.
> Here's why:
> Any U.S. company that wants to hire you based on your
> CCIE status is going to profit greatly from hiring
> you.
> Now, there literally about 1000 companies looking for
> CCIE talent every single day - no matter how many pass
> the lab that day...
> Supply and Demand.
> My advice - learn to negotiate.  Let them give you a
> number.
> If it is under $100,000.00 U.S. - they did not want
> you anyway and if they did you may find later it was
> probably better you waited just a bit longer you could
> have doubled or tripled your salary.
> Sound outrageous?
> Go to and put your resume
> online and wait...
> Won't take long...
> If fact put it up before you get your CCIE, you may be
> amazed at the opportunities that are presented to you
> even at the CCNP level.
> Mention your lab experience (even if you fail) on your
> C.V.
> Make the American Dream work for you too...
> This also applies to your friends in I.T who are DBA's
> and other I.T. Professional.
> Once you take the job you will be slaving away like
> the rest of us and your stress level will improve
> since you will be able to afford a $200-500,000.00
> home or even better, you will be able to afford a
> couple of nice $40-80,000.00 cars and your children
> will be able to attend the best schools in your city
> of choice.
> I promise you will hate yourself every single day that
> you go to work with your CCIE certification, knowing
> that the CCNA who just got out of the Cisco Academy is
> making more than you are and is driving a better car
> while you are walking to work from the closest
> apartment complex.
> So learn to negotiate, -  I feel so strongly about
> this matter, I will negotiate for you or give you
> personal tips if you like.
> No more free lunches for companies - an H-1B only
> costs a few thousand dollars to obtain...
> Hey, even if you take a 30k salary and double it to
> 60k you win and they still got you at 1/2 the price -
> so they win... (Still you are being robbed).
> We call this a WIN/WIN in the U.S. Corporte
> Environment and you can still afford to eat at
> McDonald's for lunch at least.
> Which when you get here - you may notice that your H.R
> people may never eat at McD's... and your co-workers
> in I.T. seem to avoid like the plague...
> Which by the way... also kills your ability to
> fraternize with your co-workers - they think you are
> avoiding them, the truth is they spend more on lunch
> than you spend on bus fare... to get to work.
> Now the rub - if a company turns you down, you will be
> surprised at how quickly the next one makes a play for
> you.
> It is the United States and we have literally
> thousands of companies.
> In the end, you will have to do what is best for you
> and your family.
> However, if you take a minimum wage CCIE job...  you
> will likely have to wait for maybe 2 years or more to
> move your family here while you wait in the H-1B to
> get approved and finalized...
> All the while, you are missing your wife or husband
> and your kids are growing up barely seeing their daddy
> or mommy.
> Don't get me wrong you can fly to see them (at least
> say $700-1000.00 or more for a flight) but now this
> continues to drain your salary further...
> And did anyone tell you about "Uncle Sam" and local
> state taxes and Sales and Use Taxes during the
> interview - never mind withholding for Social Security
> and FICA...
> Yep -  your 30k - just got raped and diminished about
> $10k at least... and if you have to start using credit
> cards or buy that car - you are going to pay interest
> as well...
> My wife (Venezuela) tells me all the time how people
> in her country - even the lowest paid workers can
> afford quality health care and vacations...
> Many people in the U.S. with under $30k salaries go
> without healthcare  - they need the cash to get by.
> Many people in the U.S. with $100K+ salaries do not
> take vacation and some companies seem to even frown on
> it...  others require you take it.
> Choose wisely.
> OK - I just was talking with another friend of mine
> who is getting / got raped and is alive to tell the
> tale...
> So...
> Learn to negotiate - it may be worth more than a
> handful of tech certs and a Master's in Technology
> combined...
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