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Re: SBC Pre-Sales Engineering Position Open - Northern Virginia posted 09/01/2004
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I completely agree with you.

You're right no one owes anyone a job. But they should at least look at the job that you've been doing for them. I sacrificed a lot for a long time, because I spent so many hours working and sitting planes that I had absolutely no time to study - what little time I had was used to prevent burn out.

What could they have done differently? Maybe they could have cut my hours. Maybe they could have offered me a salary reduction as opposed to calling and leaving a voice mail message informing me of the cut. It would have been better then dealing with the job market the way its been. I could have handled a +50% salary cut and would have kept doing my job. Because that's what you do when there are rough times. You make sacrifices.

I take a lot of responsibility because I put them first in my life.

We just can't let that happen to ourselves. We can't let our kids grow up and not know about the important things going on in their lives.

Like I said, now my family is first, then studying, then work. Work has to allow me time to rest and study.

We've got to keep our priorities straight.

----- Original Message ----- From: "VoiceCandidate" <jthao1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: SBC Pre-Sales Engineering Position Open - Northern Virginia



sounds to me that Joe is complaining about the general state of jobs in
America, and about capitalism in America, not just his SBC experience.

But, I would like to point out just a few things. For one, I believe nobody
owes anybody a job. It seems that if one kept his skills up to date and
learn new skills that are in demand, it would seem to me that one would be
safer from layoffs. When one becomes complacent and blames the company for
not protecting his job, it just seems to me to be more socialistic rather
than capitalistic. If you want companies to guarantee you a living, then
maybe I suggest you go to Canada or France, where the government will
guarantee you a job even if you're not useful.


As a CCIE himself, I am not saying that Joe did not have useful skills and
no insult is intended (and I apologize in advance if insult is perceived).
I'm just saying it's your responsibility to ensure you are employable. I
guess that's why people in this forum invest a lot of time and money to get
their CCIE.


As a consultant; I, too, experienced and suffered the downturn of the
economy. But I invested 16-hour days to studying and getting my CCIE in 8
months and my CISSP in two weeks. Of course, I am bitter that business is
not as healthy as it once was, but that is the nature of the capitalism that
we live in. Which, by the way; despite the downturn, continues to be the
most vibrant economy of any industrialized nation in the world.


Joseph
CCIE #9273, CISSP
BSEE, MSCS



----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Deleonardo" <JoeDeleonardo@xxxxxxx>
To: "BROWNE, KEN (AIT)" <kb8632@xxxxxxx>; "Georg Pauwen"
<pauwen@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: SBC Pre-Sales Engineering Position Open - Northern Virginia



SBC reduced the educational benefit to $13,000 a lifetime nation wide.
Still
not bad, but it's not going to pay for an MBA. Maybe you got that done
before the cuts.

I stared working for Pacific Bell. It was the best organization and job on
the planet. Then SBC came in, trainings were eliminated. Benefits cut.


I guess it could be on a state by state basis. I guess the merger could
account for the job loss. But our group was making money, but apparently
not
enough. They were able to make more money outsourcing the services.

Maybe because you're in sales you're being treated better. Sales people
are
normally treated better because they bring in revenue. I understand that
employers have stock holders, but I think that dedicated hard working
employees are the real asset of the company. Thank goodness for those cuts
and layoffs, because otherwise the CEO wouldn't have gotten his full $4
million dollar yearly bonus that year. It's a little hard to stomach how
they organize their priorities.


But that's what America allows to happen. Maybe there just needs to be a
few
more Enron's for people to demand that it stop.

I apologize to everyone for going off topic. This is my last comment.

SBC just hits a very tender nerve with me.

Good luck to anyone that works there... or dares to go down that path.

----- Original Message ----- From: "BROWNE, KEN (AIT)" <kb8632@xxxxxxx>
To: "Georg Pauwen" <pauwen@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <JoeDeleonardo@xxxxxxx>;
<ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:54 AM
Subject: RE: SBC Pre-Sales Engineering Position Open - Northern Virginia



> It sounds like Joe has had the opposite experience that I've had at > SBC.
> I work 40 hours a week, get trained, SBC put me through an MBA program,
> paid for my certifications, and didn't lay me off. I'm glad I didn't
> work for Joe's organization at SBC! Thanks. Ken.
>
> Ken Browne
> Systems Engineering Manager
> CCNP, CCDP
> SBC Advanced Enterprise Solutions Engineering
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Georg Pauwen [mailto:pauwen@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:50 AM
> To: JoeDeleonardo@xxxxxxx; BROWNE, KEN (AIT); ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: SBC Pre-Sales Engineering Position Open - Northern > Virginia
>
>
> Sounds like a description of the average IT job these days...
>
>
>>From: "Joe Deleonardo" <JoeDeleonardo@xxxxxxx>
>>Reply-To: "Joe Deleonardo" <JoeDeleonardo@xxxxxxx>
>>To: "BROWNE, KEN (AIT)" <kb8632@xxxxxxx>, <ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: Re: SBC Pre-Sales Engineering Position Open - Northern
> Virginia
>>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:37:39 -0700
>>
>>Well since we're going off topic. I worked for SBC for 5 years. You
> will
>>never experience more bullshit and corporate politics in your life.
> Then
>>after 5 years of service you can expect to be laid off when the economy
>
>>gets shaky... even though you may have stayed when other job offers
> were
>>better during better economic times, you may have worked 70-80 hours
> per
>>week on salary and may have sacrificed your education and time with
> your
>>family for the company.
>>
>>Bitter? You're dam right! Everyone out there just remember SBC doesn't
> care
>>about you. They care about their bottom line. Concentrate on your
> family
>>first, then your CCIE [education is your future], then your job.
>>
>>CCIE 12391
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "BROWNE, KEN (AIT)" <kb8632@xxxxxxx>
>>To: <ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:02 AM
>>Subject: SBC Pre-Sales Engineering Position Open - Northern Virginia
>>
>>
>>>Hi Everybody:
>>>
>>>SBC, a fortune 25 company, is seeking a Cisco-centric pre-sales
>>>engineer in the Northern Virginia, Baltimore, Sterling area. High
> pay,
>>>retirement program, matching 401k, long term full time employment,
> very
>>>stable company, medical, dental, vision, disability, life insurance.
>>>This position is for a CCNP/DP type, with strong Cisco technical
> skills.
>>>Minimal travel locally. In this position, you will work with SBC
>>>Advanced Enterprise Solutions sales teams to design solutions within
> the
>>>Cisco, Sniffer, Juniper, and various vendor's enterprise environments.
>>>You will see every type of equipment, and be involved in some of the
>>>largest enterprise networks in Northern Virginia. Additionally, SBC
>>>pays for, and deeply encourages training and certification. All
>>>inquiries are treated with strict confidentiality. If you have
>>>interest, please contact me via email at kb8632@xxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>Ken Browne
>>>Systems Engineering Manager
>>>CCNP, CCDP
>>>SBC Advanced Enterprise Solutions Engineering
>>>
>>>[GroupStudy removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a
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>>>
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