Not only is it true that early CCIE candidates were allowed to bring
their own notes, they took the test with a lab partner. One could have
passed the CCIE lab back then by simply being lucky enough to have a
partner that knew his stuff. There were also instances, in the very
early days, before the mid-1990's, where CCIE's passed by bringing in
floppies with router config's and pasting them in. Now I expect flames
on this, but is it not probable that the CCIE being produced today is
sharper and more skillful than those of yesterday? I have two friends
who got there CCIE in the mid-90's, but have not been able to recertify
by passing a written test. I took the test for the first time in 1997,
and I got partial credit for everthing. I took it again last Feb. and
now no partial credit is given on anything. In the past, the test has
evolved to be more difficult, and I can't imagine that Cisco will
reverse itself with the new one day version. The new CCIE's will be as
good as or better than the old. Waiting for flames...:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brown [mailto:Jim.Brown@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 10:53 AM
To: 'Brian Dennis'; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Remote
How could the location make a difference? Technically the exam is an
open
book test anyway. Cisco allows you to use a complete set of
documentation.
What advantage could you gain by testing in Sylvan opposed to the Cisco
office. The only possibility I can see is if a testing center recorded a
test and allowed you to research the scenario before you sat the
practical.
I've heard, originally Cisco allowed candidates to bring in whatever
materials, notes, or docs they desired? No limitation on just the doc CD
of
today. This last point is not a request for flames, I'm just looking for
clarification or validation.
Personally, I don't want the format to change. I think it will bring
about
the eventually segregation of CCIEs who tested this way and CCIEs who
didn't. Keep the playing field equal and open more testing centers.
Does anybody believe the CCIE candidates can influence Cisco's decision
of
format changes? I don't believe so.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Dennis [mailto:brian@xxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 9:35 AM
To: ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Remote
The idea that Cisco was entertaining was to have the candidate take the
lab
from a Sylvan testing center not in a Cisco sales office. It would be
pretty
obvious that if they do go ahead and use Sylvan that the numbers will
increase dramatically. The CCIEs numbers will increase but the number of
CCIEs won't (if you catch my drift). Besides the fact that a candidate
could
just take the lab over and over at their local Sylvan center, there are
many
Sylvan testing centers that aren't on the up-and-up.
I don't know about your company but most wouldn't be interested in
hiring a
"Sylvan CCIE" unless they just needed them for their Cisco partner
status. I
could hear the recruiters now. We said we were looking for a "CCIE" not
a
"Sylvan CCIE" ;)
Also it's not to hard to run and administer remote equipment. It
probably
would be cost effective for Cisco to do so.
Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) CCSI #98640
5G Networks, Inc.
brian@xxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Edward Moss
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 7:24 AM
To: Brian Dennis; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: CCIE Lab Remote
Having the lab remote is a pretty interesting thought.... I don't how
well
it would work though. I could see it at several Cisco Offices throughout
the
country though. Either way would have its logistics problems and issues
I don't think remote labs would dive the number up... As it is now, if
you
score less than 20 points on day 1, you can't take the lab again for six
months. I assume they will have a similar policy with the new format.
They
could even take this a step further and tier the scores... Less than 20
points, wait 6 months - 20 to 40 points, four months - 40 to 60 points
wait
2 months, and of course a minimum of 30 days between exams.
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Dennis <brian@xxxxxx>
To: Sandro Ciffali <sandyccie@xxxxxxxxx>; Nigel Taylor
<nigel_taylor@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <jkaberna@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; <lkouncar@xxxxxx>;
<ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 8:41 AM
Subject: CCIE Lab Remote (was RE: CAN WE STOP THIS ONE DAY LAB
DISCUSSION!!!!)
> Does anyone see where all this is going? If you don't have to cable up
the
> equipment and the lab isn't being graded on the spot, that the next
logical
> step is running the CCIE lab totally remote. Can you imagine taking
your
> CCIE in a Sylvan testing center? Cisco is entertaining the idea of
running
> the lab remote (Sylvan) and offered the new one-day beta remote to
people.
>
> The one-day lab gives them the opportunity to run it remote which
seems to
> be the direction that Cisco is wanting to go. Just think how many
CCIEs
> there will be when they start running it remote. Because the waiting
list
> will be so short, you'll see more people just taking the lab over and
over
> till they pass rather than spending the time studying between
attempts.
>
> If you don't think this discussion belongs on this mailing list you
are
> sadly mistaken. Also people in the CCIE program at Cisco do listen to
this
> mailing list including the proctors.
>
> Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S)(ISP/Dial) CCSI #98640
> 5G Networks, Inc.
> brian@xxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> Sandro Ciffali
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:00 PM
> To: Nigel Taylor; jkaberna@xxxxxxxxxxxx; lkouncar@xxxxxx;
> ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: CAN WE STOP THIS ONE DAY LAB DISCUSSION!!!!
>
>
> I know this thread is chewed enough, But i don't see one more point
here,
I
> attended today the ccie power session in networkers, We had a big
discussion
> about the new lab. format, The biggest problem here is with one day
format
> we will not be getting the result of the lab. on the same day, The
result
> will be mailed to the candidate two or three day after the lab. or the
> candidate can check on the web site, The will be proper procedure to
argue
> on some of the result points if the candidate disagree. I think this
SUCKS
> BIG TIME.
> Just wanted to share with you all that the feeling of completnet while
> leaving RTP or Hallifax or SJ after passing the test will be soon
history.
>
> Sandro
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nigel Taylor" <nigel_taylor@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jkaberna@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; <lkouncar@xxxxxx>;
<ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 5:09 AM
> Subject: Re: CAN WE STOP THIS ONE DAY LAB DISCUSSION!!!!
>
>
> > John,
> >
> > It's funny that you mention it but I do have a voucher for 70-240..
I
do
> > need to start studying for the WIN2K cert.. one never knows... the
value
> > in these certs change from day to day...:->
> >
> > Nigel...
> >
> > P.S. - Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I'm sure there's a
lot of
> > folks that probably feel the same way. If I had gotten my number
in
> > may maybe my point of view would be different.
> >
> > >From: "John Kaberna" >To: "Nigel Taylor" , , >Subject: Re: CAN WE
STOP
> > THIS ONE DAY LAB DISCUSSION!!!! >Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 21:24:43
-0700 >
> > >Not to discount the credibility of those that passed the lab 3-5
years
> > ago, >but the topics on that lab aren't nearly as important as the
ones
> > today. >The only thing that makes those CCIE's more valuable is the
> > possibility that >they've been in the field longer. The test very
well
> > have been more >difficult too, but you are forgetting that a lot of
those
> > technologies and >protocols are now obsolete. If you can't see any
> > potential problem with >cutting the lab in half then I guess it will
be
> > hard to make you understand. > >I am worried about it because I went
for
> > the CCIE because of its difficulty >and exclusiveness. What do you
think
> > will happen to my pay rate when the >number of CCIE's goes from
6,000 to
> > 16,000 in a year or two? One of the >major reasons Cisco is doing
this
is
> > to INCREASE the numbers. Do you think >they will make the lab harder
than
> > it currently is if that is one of their >goals? I think it will be
> > somewhat difficult yet twice as many people will >be taking the exam
not
> > to mention those that fail will be able to take it >6-10 times a
year
> > until they see an exam they know. Given what CCIE's make >they money
> > spent will be worth it. Right now people can only take it twice >a
year.
> > It makes the journey that much more difficult. > >I guess I should
get
> > back to studying for my MCSE and CNE. I want to work >on something
that
> > won't end up as common as the CCIE will be. :) That's a >joke so
keep
the
> > flames to yourselves. > >John Kaberna >CCIE #7146 >NETCG Inc >Cisco
> > Premier Partner >www.netcginc.com >(415) 750-3800 >Fax: 750-3900 >
> > >__________________________________ >CCIE Security Training:
> > >www.netcginc.com/training.htm > >CCIE Routing/Switching Training
> > >www.ccbootcamp.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Nigel
Taylor"
> > >To: ; ; >Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 4:09 AM >Subject: Re: CAN WE
STOP
> > THIS ONE DAY LAB DISCUSSION!!!! > > > > See Inline > > > > >From:
"John
> > Kaberna" >To: "Nigel Taylor" , , >Subject: Re: CAN WE STOP > > THIS
ONE
> > DAY LAB DISCUSSION!!!! >Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:36:38 -0700 > > >
>Some
> > people are not concerned about the format and therefore integrity >
> of
> > >the exam. They just want the number and don't care how they get it
or >
> > > if >its still as valuable. Blind ambition I suppose. But,
considering
> > how > > much >time, effort, and money is put forth I would think
that a
>
> > > discussion about >the exam changing with such a magnitude as this
would
> > > > be something we would >all want to discuss. This is a little
bigger
> > than > > removing AppleTalk or ATM LANE. > > > > What exactly is the
> > problem/difference with going from a one-day lab to a > > two-day
lab. I
> > bet the folks that took the lab(3-5 years ago) could > > present a
case
> > as to why their CCIE is worth more than any current CCIE. > > So how
is
> > this any different. > > > > >Also, despite what people think this
can
> > still be changed. You know we > > are >still the customers. Without
us
> > there is no CCIE program. But, some > > of you >have that attitude
where
> > you just take whatever is given to you > > instead of >standing up
for
> > what you want. Those are the same people that > > got beat up
>frequently
> > in school. The same people that don't vote > > because they don't
>think
> > they can change anything. The same people that > > sit around making
> > excuses about why things are the way they are without > > ever
> > contributing anything towards a cause. > > > > Well I never was one
of
> > the folks that got beaten up in school and yes, I > > voted because
I do
> > feel like I can assist in changing things. As for > > making excuses
I
> > wouldn't know what you were refering to.. since I did > > make my
first
> > attempt on the lab back in May and will one of those > > "people"
doing
> > the so called *one-day* lab. My only question now is > > seeing as
you
do
> > have a CCIE number why are you evern worried.? Aren't > > you
already
> > getting payed...so what is all the fuss about... :-> > > > > Nigel >
> >
> > > >John Kaberna > > > > >CCIE #7146 >NETCG Inc >Cisco Premier
Partner
> > >www.netcginc.com >(415) > > 750-3800 >Fax: 750-3900 >
> > >__________________________________ >CCIE > > Security Training:
> > >www.netcginc.com/training.htm > >CCIE > > Routing/Switching
Training
> > >www.ccbootcamp.com > >----- Original Message > > ----- >From:
"Nigel
> > Taylor" >To: ; >Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:46 AM > > >Subject:
Re:
> > CAN WE STOP THIS ONE DAY LAB DISCUSSION!!!! > > > > Louie, > > > > >
>
> > Thank You... I didn't think someone would have to say > > > >
this....
> > Hopefully this is the end of it. > > > > Nigel. > > > > >From: > >
"louie
> > kouncar" >Reply-To: "louie kouncar" >To: >Subject: CAN WE > > STOP >
>
> > THIS ONE DAY LAB DISCUSSION!!!! >Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:51:07 > >
> >
> > -0400 > >This issue is becoming annoying right now with tons of
e-mail >
> > > > > talking >about it, You should be prepared for anything if you
want
> > to > > be > > a CCIE, >so if Cisco decides to use a half day or one
day
> > or even > > ten day > > lab, >that is not up to us to decide, a true
CCIE
> > can do > > anything, > > anywhere, >anyhow.. > >So lets get back
to
> > studying and > > stop wasting > > time on this issue. > >Thank you
>
> > >Louie Kouncar > > >**Please > >
> > read:http://www.groupstudy.com/list/posting.html > > > >
> > >_______________________________________________________ >To
unsubscribe
> > > > > > from the CCIELAB list, send a message to
> > >majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > with > > the body containing:
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> > ccielab > > > > > >
> >
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