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Re: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable? posted 01/19/2001
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A certificate is a certificate.. Once you get it, it becomes worthless .. I
believe the journey is more important than the destination in any
certifications.. Once you placed more importance on the destination (or
getting the certifications) than you do on the process, the it starts to
become worthless because there will always be people looking to make the
certification easier to get...

As I always tells my trainees, a Network is to support the Servers, the
Servers to support the Applications and Workstations, and the Workstations
and Applications is to support the users. If the users have a problem and
you cannot fix it, they don't really give a damn where the problem lies or
what certifications you hold.

If you are a MCSE, then take some time to understand the applications and
the network.. if you are a CCIE, then take some time to look at how servers
works and how applications works.. there is much more than CCIE.

The truth is, certifications should be used as a benchmark for minimum
standards, i.e. if you are certificated, it doesn't mean anything except
that you meet the MINIMUM standard required to support the particular
products.

For those who thinks they have achieve something great, take some time to be
humble and stop insulting those who has chosen a different direction or who
dare to ask a different question or stated his thoughts..

All I see was Cai DeZhong asking and stating his experiences and I see
replies threatening his job.. Are you guys living in Russia  ?

For DeZhong, all I can say is that , it's not how many exams you can pass
but what you can bring to a company that determines how much you earn....


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Hu" <wayneccie@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Shaun Nicholson" <Shaun.Nicholson@xxxxxx>; "austin.alao"
<austin.alao@xxxxxx>
Cc: "andrew.2.shore" <andrew.2.shore@xxxxxx>; "bhescock"
<bhescock@xxxxxxxxx>; "dcai" <dcai@xxxxxxxxx>; "johcamer"
<johcamer@xxxxxxxxx>; "ccielab" <ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?


> Agree. It took me 22 days to pass 6 MCSE Exams without working experience
> two years ago. Now I haven't got my CCIE after 6 months preparing plus
work
> experience.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> Shaun Nicholson
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:50 AM
> To: austin.alao
> Cc: andrew.2.shore; bhescock; dcai; johcamer; ccielab
> Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
>
> How dare you compare the MCSE to the CCIE they are no way similar, I haved
> worked with MCSE's who could not wipe there own arse's with there paper
> cetificates I myself started on the MCSE and stoped after 3 exams as I
> realized how worthless it was plus I moved to the USA where I concentrated
> on working on Cisco equipment more, so that became my chosen path. But
still
> come on the MSCE is now a big joke throughout the industry you should
start
> to listen to your peers man. Microsoft did what they always do they cashed
> in and turned out armys of Microsoft solders to help sell there products
and
> it worked. Hell Cisco are doing a similar thing with the CCDA,CCDP, CCNA
and
> CCNP tracks. I know I've done them too.
>
> I know not all MCSE or any other certs for that matter are paper and I'm
not
> implying you are, how could I I dont even know you. But I can only speak
> from experiances and there are more paper MCSE who do not know what they
are
> doing out there because they did bootcamps or what ever to get there
screen
> based non handson certificates. You have to agree with that surerly the
rest
> of the industry does.
>
> The MCSE is a basic do 6 exams on a computer screen and if you do the
> adaptive exams it can take you less than 20 minutes an exam I know I speak
> from experiance. I dont even use the letters I was asigned from Microsoft
> (MCP) anymore it took me 20 minutes to get a 55% pass. It has taken me 9
> months of 40 hours a week in the lab and 3 goes to get my lab ok so the
> written is not that hard but the lab is.
>
> So please dont try to bring the CCIE down to the cash sucking level that
> Microsoft have with there certification track.
>
> I dont quite understand the plus CCIE-awaiting number comment does that
mean
> you have not passed the lab yet but have passed the written? have you even
> tried the lab yet?
>
> I wish you luck in your persuit of a real handson industry certification.
>
> Thanks
> Shaun Nicholson CCIE 6705
> Lead Network Engineer
> Kaiser Permanente
> Silver Spring Data Center
> 301 680 1462
>
>
>
>
> austin.alao@xxxxxx on 01/19/2001 06:59:00 AM
> To: andrew.2.shore@xxxxxx@Internet, bhescock@xxxxxxxxx@Internet,
> dcai@xxxxxxxxx@Internet
> cc: johcamer@xxxxxxxxx@Internet, ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@Internet (bcc:
Shaun
> Nicholson/MD/KAIPERM)
> Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
> Hey Andrew,
>
> I thought from the start of your email that you were actually going to
make
> a good case for criticising MR Dhezong. You actually ended up doing worse
in
> my book by trying to ridicule Msoft and us, their engineers.
> I am in the UK too, am MCSE+I and proudly so.
> Let me also say that I am also CCNP and CCDP, plus CCIE-awaiting number.
> While you are Msoft bashing, remember that if you introduced a routine
"lab"
> to MCSE where you configured Compaq servers, installed software, and
> attempted everything on TechNet CD, you would also have a certification
> exactly like the hallowed and over-hyped CCIE.
> Take pride in your endeavours and don't slag off those of us who think
that
> Msoft is the most intelligently managed Corporation out there, and owe our
> daily-bread to their success.
>
> Lets show respect for fellow professionals and let the matter rest.
>
> Nuff said,
>
> Austin Alao,
> 01442 431 247 / 07740 148 175
> "He Who Brings Sunshine to the Life of Others, Cannot Himself Live in
> Darkness"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shore,A,Andrew,YEF36 SHOREA2 C
> Sent: 19 January 2001 03:30
> To: bhescock@xxxxxxxxx; dcai@xxxxxxxxx
> Cc: johcamer@xxxxxxxxx; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
> Perhaps if you worked in the real world you may find out how EASY Cisco
is,
> and if you're as good as you think you are, you may even earn some real
> money
>
> I work in the UK and currently make over 100k and that's UK pounds not
> dollars and I haven't even sat the lab yet. The CCIE is a benchmark used
by
> companies to rate employees ability, some companies (the one in Redmond)
> make their products attractive by giving away certification rendering them
a
> waste of paper, at least Cisco make people sweat for their accreditation.
>
> A CCIE is nothing with out the real world experience to carry you through
> projects, treating CCIE as an academic exercise probably is easy but it
> doesn't mean you can do the job.
>
> Just as a matter of interest you neglected to say how many attempts it
took.
>
>
> Andrew Shore
> BTcd
> Information Systems Engineering
> Internet & Multimedia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Hescock [mailto:bhescock@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 18 January 2001 21:58
> To: dezhong
> Cc: Cameron, John; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
>
> Dezhong,
>      You might want to unsubscribe from this list if you think the CCIE is
> so
> easy and has no real value.  All you're going to do is piss people off by
> making comments like that.
>
> Brian
>
> dezhong wrote:
>
> > Hi, John,
> >
> > You misunderstand me. I like cisco and still work hard for my group as
> > before.
> > I only want to say here is:  CCIE, just another IT certification. We
don't
> > need to pay so much attention on it.
> > I don't know why so many people think it is so difficult and so
valuable?
> >
> > Dezhong Cai
> > Cisco Systems,  CCIE # 6621
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cameron, John" <johcamer@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Cai, Dezhong" <dcai@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 1:34 PM
> > Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> >
> > > I wonder why your working at cisco with this kind of attitude.
> > >
> > > This isn't going to do the company any good when you broadcast
> > > e-mails out too a public mail alias.  What are you tring to
> > > state here?
> > >
> > > JC
> > >
> > > C i s c o  S y s t e m s           John Cameron
> > >                                    Network Engineer
> > >                                    Research Triangle Park
> > >      ||        ||                  Cisco Systems, Inc.
> > >      ||        ||
> > >     ||||      ||||
> > > ..:||||||:..:||||||:..
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: dezhong [mailto:dcai@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:59 PM
> > > To: ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi, all,
> > >
> > > I heard many stories about how difficult to get the CCIE and how
> > > valuable it
> > > is.  So now I'm.
> > >
> > > I joined Cisco last June as a new graduate student without any cisco
> > > background.
> > > I passed the CCIE in last Dec.  My salary is still as low as 68,000.
My
> > > grade is still as low as 6. And it seem there is no big promotion in
the
> > > near future. No promotion to grade 8.
> > >
> > > I don't feel it is difficult to pass the CCIE. I also doubt the value
of
> > > the
> > > CCIE. In my opinion, even you have CCIE, it still depend on whether
you
> > > have
> > > good experience. Like me, without any work experience except in cisco
> > > for
> > > several months. Can you see I'm a valuable CCIE?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dezhong Cai
> > > Cisco Systems,  CCIE # 6621
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe from the CCIELAB list, send a message to
> > > majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx with the body containing:
> > > unsubscribe ccielab
> >
> > _______________________________________________________
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> > majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx with the body containing:
> > unsubscribe ccielab
>
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