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RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable? posted 01/19/2001
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Okay, everyone has opinions on this subject, some good, some bad. But if we 
all were not hear to get our CCIE because it is a challenge then you should 
evaluate your decision to pursue the CCIE in the first place. Can we please 
stop this thread and get back to what we are supposed to be here for in the 
first place. Everyone has a story of MCSE is easy, CCIE is hard, paper this 
and paper that... Lets get back to bettering ourselves and remembering that 
the Certification itself is not what we are striving for, but the knowledge 
gained along the way. If that is not why you are here please send comments 
to: Majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx with the following
command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe ccielab

Mike Lee
CCNP+LATM+Security+Voice Access/CCDP
NNCSE/NNCDE
Cisco Systems, Inc.
12515 Research Blvd., Bldg. 04
Austin, TX 78759-2200

DSL Customer Support Engineering
mikele@xxxxxxxxx
(512)378-1331 ofc
Text Page: mikele@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

At 10:31 AM 1/19/2001 -0500, Wayne Hu wrote:
>Agree. It took me 22 days to pass 6 MCSE Exams without working experience
>two years ago. Now I haven't got my CCIE after 6 months preparing plus work
>experience.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
>Shaun Nicholson
>Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:50 AM
>To: austin.alao
>Cc: andrew.2.shore; bhescock; dcai; johcamer; ccielab
>Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
>
>How dare you compare the MCSE to the CCIE they are no way similar, I haved
>worked with MCSE's who could not wipe there own arse's with there paper
>cetificates I myself started on the MCSE and stoped after 3 exams as I
>realized how worthless it was plus I moved to the USA where I concentrated
>on working on Cisco equipment more, so that became my chosen path. But still
>come on the MSCE is now a big joke throughout the industry you should start
>to listen to your peers man. Microsoft did what they always do they cashed
>in and turned out armys of Microsoft solders to help sell there products and
>it worked. Hell Cisco are doing a similar thing with the CCDA,CCDP, CCNA and
>CCNP tracks. I know I've done them too.
>
>I know not all MCSE or any other certs for that matter are paper and I'm not
>implying you are, how could I I dont even know you. But I can only speak
>from experiances and there are more paper MCSE who do not know what they are
>doing out there because they did bootcamps or what ever to get there screen
>based non handson certificates. You have to agree with that surerly the rest
>of the industry does.
>
>The MCSE is a basic do 6 exams on a computer screen and if you do the
>adaptive exams it can take you less than 20 minutes an exam I know I speak
>from experiance. I dont even use the letters I was asigned from Microsoft
>(MCP) anymore it took me 20 minutes to get a 55% pass. It has taken me 9
>months of 40 hours a week in the lab and 3 goes to get my lab ok so the
>written is not that hard but the lab is.
>
>So please dont try to bring the CCIE down to the cash sucking level that
>Microsoft have with there certification track.
>
>I dont quite understand the plus CCIE-awaiting number comment does that mean
>you have not passed the lab yet but have passed the written? have you even
>tried the lab yet?
>
>I wish you luck in your persuit of a real handson industry certification.
>
>Thanks
>Shaun Nicholson CCIE 6705
>Lead Network Engineer
>Kaiser Permanente
>Silver Spring Data Center
>301 680 1462
>
>
>
>
>austin.alao@xxxxxx on 01/19/2001 06:59:00 AM
>To:     andrew.2.shore@xxxxxx@Internet, bhescock@xxxxxxxxx@Internet,
>dcai@xxxxxxxxx@Internet
>cc:     johcamer@xxxxxxxxx@Internet, ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@Internet (bcc: 
>Shaun
>Nicholson/MD/KAIPERM)
>Subject:        RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
>Hey Andrew,
>
>I thought from the start of your email that you were actually going to make
>a good case for criticising MR Dhezong. You actually ended up doing worse in
>my book by trying to ridicule Msoft and us, their engineers.
>I am in the UK too, am MCSE+I and proudly so.
>Let me also say that I am also CCNP and CCDP, plus CCIE-awaiting number.
>While you are Msoft bashing, remember that if you introduced a routine "lab"
>to MCSE where you configured Compaq servers, installed software, and
>attempted everything on TechNet CD, you would also have a certification
>exactly like the hallowed and over-hyped CCIE.
>Take pride in your endeavours and don't slag off those of us who think that
>Msoft is the most intelligently managed Corporation out there, and owe our
>daily-bread to their success.
>
>Lets show respect for fellow professionals and let the matter rest.
>
>Nuff said,
>
>Austin Alao,
>01442 431 247 / 07740 148 175
>"He Who Brings Sunshine to the Life of Others, Cannot Himself Live in
>Darkness"
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shore,A,Andrew,YEF36 SHOREA2 C
>Sent: 19 January 2001 03:30
>To: bhescock@xxxxxxxxx; dcai@xxxxxxxxx
>Cc: johcamer@xxxxxxxxx; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
>Perhaps if you worked in the real world you may find out how EASY Cisco is,
>and if you're as good as you think you are, you may even earn some real
>money
>
>I work in the UK and currently make over 100k and that's UK pounds not
>dollars and I haven't even sat the lab yet. The CCIE is a benchmark used by
>companies to rate employees ability, some companies (the one in Redmond)
>make their products attractive by giving away certification rendering them a
>waste of paper, at least Cisco make people sweat for their accreditation.
>
>A CCIE is nothing with out the real world experience to carry you through
>projects, treating CCIE as an academic exercise probably is easy but it
>doesn't mean you can do the job.
>
>Just as a matter of interest you neglected to say how many attempts it took.
>
>
>Andrew Shore
>BTcd
>Information Systems Engineering
>Internet & Multimedia
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Hescock [mailto:bhescock@xxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: 18 January 2001 21:58
>To: dezhong
>Cc: Cameron, John; ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
>
>
>Dezhong,
>      You might want to unsubscribe from this list if you think the CCIE is
>so
>easy and has no real value.  All you're going to do is piss people off by
>making comments like that.
>
>Brian
>
>dezhong wrote:
>
> > Hi, John,
> >
> > You misunderstand me. I like cisco and still work hard for my group as
> > before.
> > I only want to say here is:  CCIE, just another IT certification. We don't
> > need to pay so much attention on it.
> > I don't know why so many people think it is so difficult and so valuable?
> >
> > Dezhong Cai
> > Cisco Systems,  CCIE # 6621
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cameron, John" <johcamer@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Cai, Dezhong" <dcai@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 1:34 PM
> > Subject: RE: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> >
> > > I wonder why your working at cisco with this kind of attitude.
> > >
> > > This isn't going to do the company any good when you broadcast
> > > e-mails out too a public mail alias.  What are you tring to
> > > state here?
> > >
> > > JC
> > >
> > > C i s c o  S y s t e m s           John Cameron
> > >                                    Network Engineer
> > >                                    Research Triangle Park
> > >      ||        ||                  Cisco Systems, Inc.
> > >      ||        ||
> > >     ||||      ||||
> > > ..:||||||:..:||||||:..
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: dezhong [mailto:dcai@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:59 PM
> > > To: ccielab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: CCIE, is it difficult? is it valuable?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi, all,
> > >
> > > I heard many stories about how difficult to get the CCIE and how
> > > valuable it
> > > is.  So now I'm.
> > >
> > > I joined Cisco last June as a new graduate student without any cisco
> > > background.
> > > I passed the CCIE in last Dec.  My salary is still as low as 68,000. My
> > > grade is still as low as 6. And it seem there is no big promotion in the
> > > near future. No promotion to grade 8.
> > >
> > > I don't feel it is difficult to pass the CCIE. I also doubt the value of
> > > the
> > > CCIE. In my opinion, even you have CCIE, it still depend on whether you
> > > have
> > > good experience. Like me, without any work experience except in cisco
> > > for
> > > several months. Can you see I'm a valuable CCIE?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dezhong Cai
> > > Cisco Systems,  CCIE # 6621
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe from the CCIELAB list, send a message to
> > > majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx with the body containing:
> > > unsubscribe ccielab
> >
> > _______________________________________________________
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> > unsubscribe ccielab
>
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